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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Mods for Money (Read 47319 times)
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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #30 - Dec 2nd, 2008 at 9:11pm
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I'd like to point out a few things on this matter.

First of all this community was and will always be about Open Source. I'm a big fan of this ideology which is why I got involved in YaBB and started BoardMod back in 2000. Since there seems to be a lot of confusion about Open Source actually means I'll give some pointers here.

Open Source does not mean “for free”, it's better described with “freedom”. The idea behind it is that you're granted the right to share it, to modify it, have a look inside and to get involved with it in any way you can imagine. But there is also a very important restriction: no one can take away these rights from you. You can modify it, copy it, but you have to give others the same rights on the new piece of software you just created! Note that there is no restriction that sais “hey, you have to give it away for free”. This might cause stomachache for some, but in the end this openness concerning commercial interests is not really problem!

A good example is the OpenOffice package. It's under an open source license too. This has resulted in a couple of enterprises trying to actually sell this software as their own. Nevertheless everyone is using the original package, there is no reason to buy what those enterprises offer, you have a choice here. It's the same with commercial mods. If a mod is only available for money, maybe someone felling not comfortable with it will write their own mod that does the exact same thing but for free. In that case it doesn't make sense to keep selling the original mod since no one will buy it. It's that simple. In my opinion the future of commercial mods lies within extended bugfixing support and additional services instead of the mod code itself.

So from a legal standpoint, it is possible to sell mods for money. BUT the person selling should be very careful what claims are made, keep in mind that you've agreed to a license by downloading YaBB! That license tells you that you may charge people for your code, but it does not allow you to prevent people from sharing or modifying your just sold mod! You might hold the copyright on the code you created yourself, but you have to release it under the same license as YaBB itself, since it's a modification of the same. In case you don't do this, you don't have the right to use or modify the YaBB code which makes your whole action a license violation and thereby illegal.

The question under which license mods actually are released hasn't been discussed here in the past since there never has been a problem with it. We introduced a code of conduct here based on respect and acknowledgement: if you want to modify someone else mod, ask the original author first. That prevents the original author becoming upset and getting the felling of being pretermitted. But to point it out again: this is not strictly necessary from a legal point of view. Modification of YaBB are under the YaBB license too giving everyone the right to continue moding modifications. But I think it's important to keep this conduct alive, it has been very effective in preventing conflicts in the past.

At this point I'd like to cite the preamble of the YaBB license as most people here probably never read it (although they agreed to it Wink):
Quote:
The licenses for most software are designed to take away your freedom to share and change it. By contrast, this License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free software – to make sure the software is free for all its users.

When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our YaBB Public License is designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for a service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things.

To protect your rights, we need to make restrictions that forbid anyone to deny you these rights or to ask you to surrender the rights. These restrictions translate to certain responsibilities for you if you distribute copies of the software, or if you modify it. For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that you have. You must make sure that they too receive or can get the source code, and you must show them these terms so they know their rights.

[…]

Summary of Your Rights with this Software

1. You MAY use this Package free of charge, and the Package, containing all source code, will be available to you at any time.

2. You may NOT sell this Package if nothing has been modified and it is being distributed by You in the same manner the original Package was distributed to You.

3. You MAY sell this Package if you have done the following:
  • You have modified items or code in this Package and have properly commented what and when the modifications took place.
  • If the Package has not been modified (or if it has), You are including a service such as installation with this Package.
  • You have included a copy of this original YaBB Public License with your product and have applied the proper copyright notices.
  • You have made available the source code and all other materials that were available when You received this Package to the public and have distributed this material to the original authors of this product.

4. You may NOT use the YaBB software for any illegal actions. Such use will void this license and deem your copy of YaBB illegal. YaBB nor XIMinc can be held liable for such uses.




The question now is: do we want to allow this platform to tolerate commercial mods?

Is there a realistic risk that more and more mods would only be available for money? It might as well just be a small niche, people with money would probably invest in a proper commercial board anyway? Is it worth opening a separate place for it? Or could that just weaken the YaBB modding community by dividing it? Keep in mind JetLi has released a lot of free mods in the past, I'm sure he'll do so in the future too...


I'd like to let you know about my personal opinion here too: I for my part don't have any interest in making commercial mods myself. I've always supported the idea of enjoying Open Source software as free as in the sense of “free beer” too. I don't demand that others think the same way though.
  

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Unilat
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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #31 - Dec 2nd, 2008 at 10:02pm
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Users can charge for installation of a mod, but I do not believe they should charge for the code itself. Donations for the hard work done is reasonable.

And I still believe it is too high of a price. JetLi has done the work and right now he probably has a .mod file that he can quickly make the changes to the source and reupload or send it back. That only takes a matter of minutes... Thats why Im baffled at the high price. The high price likely comes from the time put in, but $50 from each user for your time isnt worth it. Maybe a one time payment for your time, but you always put, say, 20 hours into the code. You can make an unlimited amount of money off of that 20 hours then by charging based on time. With one payment it pays you for that time and that is it. Unfortunately we dont have a larger boss here that can do that and one user wont want to pay for your time if other users do not have to. I believe you should ask for donations Jet and charge for installation and a year of bugfix guarantees.

See what I mean? I know you arent doing it for the money, so why then is the price so high? And as Michael stated, I could take prior code and use it for my own version or rewrite it completely. Of course, I respect your views and wouldnt publish my own, but who is to say that once you sell this to one person he/she wont give the source files to anyone else that needs it. It just doesnt seem secure enough and therefore just not worth the time and effort.
  
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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #32 - Dec 2nd, 2008 at 10:53pm
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Michael Prager Quote:
you're granted the right to share it, to modify it, have a look inside and to get involved with it in any way you can imagine. But there is also a very important restriction: no one can take away these rights from you.
You can modify it, copy it, but you have to give others the same rights on the new piece of software you just created!


Michael Prager Quote:
But to point it out again: this is not strictly necessary from a legal point of view. Modification of YaBB are under the YaBB license too
giving everyone the right to continue moding modifications.


  Free to MOD ...  Just a simple attempt to contact Original MODder for acknowledgement (a courtesy)
  AND I might add ... to leave acknowlegement in the Newly MODded MOD for past MODders.

  

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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #33 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 1:56am
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While I don't like the idea of paying for mods (after all, many of us have run boards using 80 or 100 mods on them, and even at something like $5 a pop, that adds up to $500), I mentioned I was willing to think about the idea.

But the price, for the specific mod offered? No way ... for me, personally. At least one person has indicated this is not about money, though Jet Li has not verified it, and what Deti says seems to indicate otherwise.

Are there theoretical mods that I might pay that much for? Not for an individual mod, but perhaps for a mod package. If, say, Carsten returned, and offered a package of his mods that I was really interested in, I might go for it. For example, a package of YaML, Member Map, Thread Ratings, Forum Statistics, and Guestbook (I think that was his, though it never made it past 1.x). Many of those mods were major features in their own rights, and to have all of them, even at something like $10 a pop, might be worth while.)

Unless it is being done specifically as a snub, in relation to the conflict with Multikon, I think the price in this instance is far too high. If it is being done as a snub, then I think it was a bad way to go, but I guess I'll have to wait and see what else happens before I get really into my position on this.

Then again, this mod may be far more important to some people than it is to me.
  

Improving my forum, one mod at a time!


Now up and running again, with an accurate link.


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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #34 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 11:04am
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Hey Jet Li

If I was smart enough to write mods I would charge as well  Wink
  

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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #35 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 4:58pm
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Jet Li Quote:
Ok now forget about Money, we can add TLD/Path check for mods, that nobody can encode the TLD encryption.

We now Hold Mods.



   I already noticed that Jet Li and deti have NOT uploaded their MODs here, directing to Jet Li's YaBB World for download.

   Now it's up to Michael ... are MODs going to be held for ransom ?  Or does the Open Source policy going to allow MODders to MOD any MOD and Post here for General users?
  

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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #36 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 5:48pm
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I don't think they can be held for ransom. Cheesy
Did you read what Michael wrote?

"Open Source does not mean 'for free', it's better described with 'freedom'. The idea behind it is that you're granted the right to share it, to modify it, have a look inside and to get involved with it in any way you can imagine."

and

"We introduced a code of conduct here based on respect and acknowledgement: if you want to modify someone else mod, ask the original author first."
  

Was immer Du tun kannst
oder erträumst tun zu können,
beginne es.
Kühnheit besitzt Genie,
Macht und magische Kraft.
Beginne es jetzt.
Whatever you can do
or dream you can,
begin it.
Boldness has genius,
power and magic in it.
Begin it now.
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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #37 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 5:52pm
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Quote:
I already noticed that Jet Li and deti have NOT uploaded their MODs here, directing to Jet Li's YaBB World for download.

And whats your problem? Long time ago, this forum lost attachments, I want to keep download visible on my website. Is this a big problem?  Wink
  

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Jeff
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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #38 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 6:00pm
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So from a legal standpoint, it is possible to sell mods for money. BUT the person selling should be very careful what claims are made, keep in mind that you've agreed to a license by downloading YaBB! That license tells you that you may charge people for your code, but it does not allow you to prevent people from sharing or modifying your just sold mod! You might hold the copyright on the code you created yourself, but you have to release it under the same license as YaBB itself, since it's a modification of the same. In case you don't do this, you don't have the right to use or modify the YaBB code which makes your whole action a license violation and thereby illegal.


... i have all mods on my 2.3. my topic here goes to all the young and/or new yabb-people without money ...
  

beware ... yabb goes wbb ^^
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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #39 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 6:19pm
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Nice to hear.

I just wonder why you didn't release one single YaBB 2.3 Mod on this forum...
Can you offer a link to your forum and a download link for your Mods?
  

Was immer Du tun kannst
oder erträumst tun zu können,
beginne es.
Kühnheit besitzt Genie,
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Beginne es jetzt.
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begin it.
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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #40 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 6:27pm
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deti wrote on Dec 3rd, 2008 at 6:19pm:
Can you offer a link to your forum and a download link for your Mods?


my board are under construction, but you can see a screenshot in the showcase ..

Downloads for the mods (eventcal, irc chat, wiw or games etc) are not avaible ... i'm not the author Wink

  

beware ... yabb goes wbb ^^
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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #41 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 6:46pm
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multikon wrote on Dec 3rd, 2008 at 6:27pm:
... i'm not the author Wink

Then it's time to create your own (new) ones.
  

Was immer Du tun kannst
oder erträumst tun zu können,
beginne es.
Kühnheit besitzt Genie,
Macht und magische Kraft.
Beginne es jetzt.
Whatever you can do
or dream you can,
begin it.
Boldness has genius,
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Begin it now.
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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #42 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 6:54pm
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deti wrote on Dec 3rd, 2008 at 6:46pm:
Then it's time to create your own (new) ones.


.. to reinvent the wheel ^^
  

beware ... yabb goes wbb ^^
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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #43 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 7:32pm
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No. To invent new features Wink
  

Was immer Du tun kannst
oder erträumst tun zu können,
beginne es.
Kühnheit besitzt Genie,
Macht und magische Kraft.
Beginne es jetzt.
Whatever you can do
or dream you can,
begin it.
Boldness has genius,
power and magic in it.
Begin it now.
Johann Wolfgang Goethe
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Re: Mods for Money
Reply #44 - Dec 3rd, 2008 at 8:23pm
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  deti is wrong !  It is NOT necessary to add New Features to a MOD in order to release it.
   Modding a MOD and porting it to Y2.3.1 is enough if not done before.
   MODding a MOD for a specific Version can then be MODded again with New Features for the same version.
  Michael Prager Quote:
We introduced a code of conduct here based on respect and acknowledgement: if you want to modify someone else mod, ask the original author first. That prevents the original author becoming upset and getting the felling of being pretermitted. But to point it out again: this is not strictly necessary from a legal point of view. Modification of YaBB are under the YaBB license too giving everyone the right to continue moding modifications.

  

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